Published on http://www.counterpunch.org/
“He’s not going anywhere.”
— Michael Moore
Some are hopefully expecting the Trump Days to end before he tweets us into a nuclear blitz with North Korea.
President Trump’s declaration that “North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States” of course resulted in another threat from North Korea. The New York Times reported, “The ad-libbed comments embodied Mr. Trump’s overall approach to foreign policy, an improvisational style that often leaves his national security team in the dark about what he is going to say or do.” (Glenn Thrush and Peter Baker, “Trump’s Threat to North Korea was Improvised,” Aug. 9, 2017).
Defense Secretary Mattis rushed in to revise Trump’s words: “actions” not “threats” would be the line Kim Jong Un had to cross before we engaged in “overwhelming response.”Cease any consideration of actions that would lead to the end of its regime and destruction of its people,” Mattis’s words should have been Trump’s words. But they were not because Trump is impervious to the counsel of others, perhaps because his experience and erudition regarding international diplomacy is so remarkable. Of course, if he was elected to “deconstruct” any such qualifications, his sort of shoot from the hip diplomacy should appeal to his supporters.
Regardless of all that, it is clear that Kim Jong Un uses the same style as Trump so it is possible to imagine that our end is in the hands of two warring volatile ego maniacs, avoiding any armchair psychiatry and employing the same school yard analytics as Trump and Kim Jong Un.
Those hopefully expecting that Trump will deconstruct the Administrative State are of course not looking forward to his end, nor are they contemplating that he might lead them to their own end. Once all that deconstruction, pace Derrida, is ended then presumably, Trump will have made America great again. That may take two terms, a full eight years. And then Trump will end and his face will go on Mt. Rushmore. If that has not dissolved in “fire and fury.”
Those who discount politics and keep their eye on the Dow might then discount the importance of Trump in or out of the presidency.
But that is a ruse thrown about by those whose hands are controlling more and more of the governmental throttles that could obstruct their market free play. And President Trump is their enabler, the one issuing their carte blanche.
The climbing stock market would most likely climb faster with Pence at the helm as a Pax Republicana would settle on two branches of government. The Republican Party could breathe easier over its pet projects, namely, globalized free trade and entitlement “reformation,” if Trump were gone and Pence was in his place. But the Republican Party will earn the ire of the Trump supporters if they bring impeachment charges against Trump. That would put them on about an equal level of opprobrium as the Democratic Party.
This brings us to the realization that Trump supporters would prefer to see the end of both political parties and all politics and all government run by politicians than the end of Trump’s presidency. How U.S. politics has gotten to this vanishing point takes us from and beyond the scope of the topic of Trump’s end to a time before, a “Path to Trump” exploration.
Conservative purists would like to see Trump gone.
They are offended by Trump’s violation of “true” Conservatism, which David Brooks describes grandly: The very essence of conservatism is the belief that politics is a limited activity, and that the most important realms are pre-political: conscience, faith, culture, family and community. (“The Conservative Intellectual Crisis,” NYTimes, Oct. 28, 2016). These “most important realms” are trashed with every new Trump tweet, which unnerves all those who go on as if some ideal, conscionable, compassionate Conservatism ever existed.
For all those unnerved by Trump’s presidency, he is a crisis that must end.
Following Naomi Klein’s “shock doctrine,” we could surmise that the Trump presidency is the shock, “creating chaos daily” in her words, and that what comes in response will be a more deeply etched plutocratic order that will make all already resident plutocrats happy.
In short, what is envisioned here is an entrenchment of Trump’s pro-corporate, government de-regulating, environmental degrading policies, including corporate leadership of government departments and agencies. But without Trump. He was the crisis that brought Neoliberal economic policies to the rescue, with so much gratitude from all.
What else lies in the wake of Trump’s end?
What Trump has torn apart and ridiculed, the Democratic Party included, to the joy of his supporters, will not be re-built easily, just as those supporters will not easily go away. Trump’s end will not be theirs. But they will inherit from Trump a presidential establishment of a world of xenophobia and racism, of mockery of government and politics, of deregulating toward prosperity, of global warming denial, of Twitter as public discourse, of personal attacks as presidential and a tearing of a cohering fabric of a civil society.
Trump ends but the world he has suddenly shifted us into is not one we can just wish away.
For example, how easy will it be to go back to the idea that “fake” news can be objectively assessed to be true or false? Or how easy will it be to get a rational response to an argument based on “alternative facts”? How quickly will a legacy press be able to shut down an online moshpit of screeds and venomous screams? He’s a buffoonish leader in the eyes of those who eye the U.S. closely and who must surely conclude that U.S. electorate is indeed a very malleable body, rather like Robert Mugabe whom many Zimbabweans support regardless of what chicanery he is up to. It is difficult to see who will get us out of this total collapse in worldwide respect.
However, the Dow Jones is not collapsing. Ending Trump might equate with ending the Dow’s climb. We can return to globalization and entitlement reformation and other Neoliberal desires after Trump ends but right now, he is a crisis that is already energizing a bullish market.
Wishing for Trump’s end would be like wishing for the end of the goose laying the golden eggs. It may be that Steve Bannon has a sort of U.S. Uber Alles mission, which Trump sees as a workable discourse to latch onto. But Trump’s real goal is transparent: monetize the presidency and leave office with the coffers of the Trump Empire overflowing. This is not an indictable matter in a country whose business is business, or, more descriptively, making a profit, for the “general Welfare,” any way and any where you can. Regardless of what Mueller’s investigation reveals, Trump’s financial arrangements may not seem at all reprehensible to those who engage in the same.
In short, it would be very much against the grain of the way we do business in the U.S. to end Trump’s days by going after his profit making, even when he is monetizing the presidency right in front of our faces.
Wage earners are not looking for Trump’s regime to end because it promises them so much that political parties, government, and Wall Street cannot give them. They expect Trump will be the leverage positioned against all employers to win for them their piece of the pie. This is surely a kind of hope in a noblesse oblige felt by super-luminaries like Trump who dispense their beneficence as the mood inclines them.
On a darker side, Trump has promised to purge the country of the “unhomgeneous” elements, which in an already seriously multi-cultural country can only mean anyone who does not share your delineation of the necessary homogeneous attributes. That is a mission that has endured in the loathsome abyss of the American mass psyche and one that Trump has brought into the Oval Office. Trump’s ending then would end that easy and presidentially championed access of the worst in our natures into the light of day.
Because Trump comes on the scene promising to end so much that so many hate, that a focus should be on his presence not his end. His presence on the political scene is a welcomed relief; his end would be mourned.
Those who believe this are desperate for anything and anyone who does not resemble in any way a forty odd year status quo that has thrown their middle class security out the window and frozen an underclass in place. Zizek preferred Trump to Hillary because he would surely shake up the system and she would run in the same ruts that have led to plutocracy.
If there was a common attitude pervading the American mass psyche of wage earners on the eve of the presidential election, I believe it was: “Anything is better than what we’ve got now.” This was destruction of the status quo without any rationale or rationalizing of such destruction. It was just better in the way you just want something wiped clean without thinking of consequences.
If you travel about the U.S., most certainly in the Rust Belt states, you will clearly see evidence supporting the case for ending whatever over the past forty or so years has led to this. You can Uber, of course, to only the gentrified, gated compound areas of any American town but beware if your car breaks down in Bonfire of the Vanities manner.
But in a plutocracy which extends to the “obscenely” rich (although Americans are in no way hardwired to view a lot of money as obscene) and the 20% professional class serving them, both doing nicely on their dividends, interests, retainer fees, royalties, everything but wages, there is little reason to venture outside the Green Zone of prosperity. Only, perhaps, like in a raiding Viking manner to make a strictly financial engagement to gentrify potentially gentrifiable real estate.
Trump’s end may only come when those greedily waiting for the cookies he promises to drop in their laps are ready to end that reign. With a Congress ready and able to pass the dream legislation of Neoliberals, the legislation that will return to them the kind of financial speculative wilding” that led to the 2007 Great Recession, there is no power consensus to end Trump’s regime. The White House drama, most especially Trump’s own, is no more than an annoyance to those waiting for the slots to give out the big wins.
Trump’s end comes when this crowd wakes up one day and thinks Trump is a bigger liability to conservative, neoliberal ideology than he’s worth, that he’s so imploded himself that he can’t give them what they want. That power consensus then is that he was all along a crisis generating only a daily chaos, via twitter, that will now be repaired and resolved by the recuperative powers of The Market.
The difficult work of destroying a democratic political order, a trust in its elections, a bonding level of civility, a respect for the importance of the Fourth Estate, and a comprehension of the “general Welfare” is work already being done by President Trump. It is a legacy that has weakened any Liberal/Leftist platform, even beyond how that Democratic Party has weakened itself since Clinton announced the end of “Big Government. What Trump has not weakened and endures beyond Trump’s end is profit as a plan, monetizing everything from ties and steaks to the presidency as a way forward.
33 Comments
Anthony Bernardo
He’s actually already started the downfall by picking a fight with the Owl of the Senate. Trump can’t get anything done on his agenda without a hoot from the Owl. Even now, without the 800 bil savings in the repeal of O care, there can’t be any major tax overhaul without an expansion of the deficit, and the same is true with infrastructure spending. That’s three out of four main legs (wall/immigration) that won’t happen by the 2018 election. Then Trump is in a lose lose position. If the Rs hold the Senate, the Owl stays on as majority leader. If the Ds take the Senate, the entire agenda is gone. I doubt he’s thought it through that far. Regarding Korea, Trump may have put Kim between a rock and a hard place. If Kim attacks Guam, it’s all over for him. If Kim doesn’t attack Guam, he loses major face. Either way, Kim is done. I doubt that Trump understood this with his goading remarks, but maybe.
Richard Ivans
Trump can’t get anything done without Senate approval?
Are these anything?
-1- illegal border crossing down 70% since taking office
-2- July unemployment rate was 4.3%, a 16 year low.
-3- Stock market (ie, Joe’s 403(b) portfolio, mine too) is at a record high, extending an already long bull market even further, making Joe and me wealthier.
-4- Israel is our friend again.
-5- Saudi Arabia is our friend again.
-6- Tension between Israel and Saudi Arabia is reduced, indicated by President Trump flying Air Force One directly from Saudi Arabia to Israel, the first direct flight *EVER*.
-7- The war on “the JV Team” is going well. Where we had none, we now have some cooperation and coordination with Russia on that war.
-8- President Trump spoke to 50+ Arab Muslim leaders about “Islamic extremism” and “Islamic terror” (words Obama never uttered). Immediately afterwards several Muslim nations, including Saudi Arabia, cut diplomatic ties with Qatar in an unprecedented protest against Qatar’s support of terrorism.
http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-executive-orders-memorandum-proclamations-presidential-action-guide-2017-1/#executive-order-april-28-exploring-offshore-energy-prospects-4
Anthony Bernardo
Richard, border crossings were down before he took office. Has been down for years. Unemployment is fake news. Oh wait: this is real news because it’s Trumps unemployment. Forgot. Unemployment has been on a downward trend from the high of around 10% caused by bad economic policy, since 2010. It was around 4.6 when O left office. Hardly an accomplishment. Stock market was the longest bull market before Trump. Fortunately, he hasn’t screwed it up yet. The middle east is the middle east. Some day it will change. I myself think Netanyahu is not interested in a 2 state solution. Russia. Give me a break. Putin is laughing his ass off at his leash dog Trump and Trump doesn’t even realize it.
Anthony Bernardo
4.8% Jan 17
Richard Ivans
Anthony Bernardo,
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/apr/25/donald-trump/illegal-immigration-lowest-17-years-trump-said/
Richard Ivans
Anthony Bernardo,
When unemployment went down during Obama, was that a good thing?
But now that it is going down even further (which like the long bull market is more and more difficult to sustain) under President Trump that is not a good thing?
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
Richard Ivans
Anthony Bernardo,
Yeah, President Trump is Putin’s leash dog alright. LOL
When Putin jerks his leash and orders him lower his head he does. LOL
Yeah, President Trump has no idea how to handle dictators. He should have learned from the stellar performance of his predecessor….
President Trump should have done a RESET WITH RUSSIA like Obama did. Reverse the missile defense system like Obama did.
President Trump is a fool. He should treat dictators in Asia like Obama did. For example, how Obama treated the Emperor of Japan, son of Hirohito, the most brutal dictator ever in the long history of Asia.
Richard Ivans
Anthony Bernardo,
You think maybe Kim Jong un saw that kowtow?
Anthony Bernardo
Ah, when your defense is an attack on O, I know blood has been drawn.
Anthony Bernardo
Hey, I defended Obama by building up Obama. You defended Trump by knocking down Obama. I do see blood, but none of mine.
Anthony Bernardo
Richard, if you think anything will get done without House and Senate support, you’re as foolish as you leader.
Anthony Bernardo
He’s actually already started the downfall by picking a fight with the Owl of the Senate. Trump can’t get anything done on his agenda without a hoot from the Owl. Even now, without the 800 bil savings in the repeal of O care, there can’t be any major tax overhaul without an expansion of the deficit, and the same is true with infrastructure spending. That’s three out of four main legs (wall/immigration) that won’t happen by the 2018 election. Then Trump is in a lose lose position. If the Rs hold the Senate, the Owl stays on as majority leader. If the Ds take the Senate, the entire agenda is gone. I doubt he’s thought it through that far. Regarding Korea, Trump may have put Kim between a rock and a hard place. If Kim attacks Guam, it’s all over for him. If Kim doesn’t attack Guam, he loses major face. Either way, Kim is done. I doubt that Trump understood this with his goading remarks, but maybe.
Richard Ivans
Trump can’t get anything done without Senate approval?
Are these anything?
-1- illegal border crossing down 70% since taking office
-2- July unemployment rate was 4.3%, a 16 year low.
-3- Stock market (ie, Joe’s 403(b) portfolio, mine too) is at a record high, extending an already long bull market even further, making Joe and me wealthier.
-4- Israel is our friend again.
-5- Saudi Arabia is our friend again.
-6- Tensions between Israel and Saudi Arabia are reduced, indicated by President Trump flying Air Force One directly from Saudi Arabia to Israel, the first direct flight *EVER*.
-7- The war on “the JV Team” is going well. Where we had none, we now have some cooperation and coordination with Russia on that war.
-8- President Trump spoke to 50+ Arab Muslim leaders about “Islamic extremism” and “Islamic terror” (words Obama never uttered). Immediately afterwards several Muslim nations, including Saudi Arabia, cut diplomatic ties with Qatar in an unprecedented protest against Qatar’s support of terrorism.
http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-executive-orders-memorandum-proclamations-presidential-action-guide-2017-1/#executive-order-april-28-exploring-offshore-energy-prospects-4
Anthony Bernardo
Richard, border crossings were down before he took office. Has been down for years. Unemployment is fake news. Oh wait: this is real news because it’s Trumps unemployment. Forgot. Unemployment has been on a downward trend from the high of around 10% caused by bad economic policy, since 2010. It was around 4.6 when O left office. Hardly an accomplishment. Stock market was the longest bull market before Trump. Fortunately, he hasn’t screwed it up yet. The middle east is the middle east. Some day it will change. I myself think Netanyahu is not interested in a 2 state solution. Russia. Give me a break. Putin is laughing his ass off at his leash dog Trump and Trump doesn’t even realize it.
Anthony Bernardo
4.8% Jan 17
Richard Ivans
Anthony Bernardo,
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/apr/25/donald-trump/illegal-immigration-lowest-17-years-trump-said/
Richard Ivans
Anthony Bernardo,
When unemployment went down during Obama, was that a good thing?
But now that it is going down even further (which like the long bull market is more and more difficult to sustain) under President Trump that is not a good thing?
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
Richard Ivans
Anthony Bernardo,
Yeah, President Trump is Putin’s leash dog alright. LOL
When Putin jerks his leash and orders him lower his head he does. LOL
Yeah, President Trump has no idea how to handle dictators. He should have learned from the stellar performance of his predecessor….
President Trump should have done a RESET WITH RUSSIA like Obama did. Reverse the missile defense system like Obama did.
President Trump is a fool. He should treat dictators in Asia like Obama did. For example, how Obama treated the Emperor of Japan, son of Hirohito, the most brutal dictator ever in the long history of Asia.
Richard Ivans
DEADLY STUPID POSTURING
May 2009 North Korea explodes a nuclear bomb
Nov 2009 Obama on Asia apology tour, kowtowing to Hirohito’s son
Feb 2013 North Korea explodes a nuclear bomb
Jan 2016 North Korea explodes a nuclear bomb
Sep 2016 North Korea explodes a nuclear bomb
I wonder if Obama verbally apologized to Hirohito’s son for dropping atomic bombs on them. Or maybe the kowtow was apology enough.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_weapons_tests_of_North_Korea
Richard Ivans
Anthony Bernardo,
You think maybe Kim Jong un saw that kowtow?
Anthony Bernardo
Ah, when your defense is an attack on O, I know blood has been drawn.
Anthony Bernardo
Hey, I defended Obama by building up Obama. You defended Trump by knocking down Obama. I do see blood, but none of mine.
Anthony Bernardo
Richard, if you think anything will get done without House and Senate support, you’re as foolish as you leader.
Richard Ivans
money is how we exchange labor.
A teacher buys a car with money, not with teaching lessons.
A farmer buys a tractor with money.
Both the teacher and the farmer labor to get money they then use to buy cars and tractors.
Money, the lust, the greed for money is nothing more than the lust for labor.
Who doesn’t want to accumulate as much labor as possible with the least effort possible?
Who sweeps their driveway with a toothbrush?
Who looks at their 403(b) stock and bond portfolio balance and doesn’t care if it went down?
Who doesn’t care if they pay $10 or $2 for a gallon of gasoline?
——————-
It’s always the other guy who is greedy.
Richard Ivans
Trump’s End?
Joe,
President Trump isn’t even 7 months into his presidency and already you’re writing about his end.
Well, that’s not really correct. You and others have been writing about his end for 9 months, since last November.
————–
THE ELECTION IS OVER, THE END ISN’T FOR YEARS
Get over it. President Trump was elected by a significant margin. America wanted him to be our president. He beat out a couple dozen other people to win. It wasn’t a fringe group of crackpots that wanted Trump to be our president. It wasn’t some people who didn’t know what they were voting for. Donald Trump had been in American news for over 30 years. Before being elected, Obama, Clinton, and Carter had been in the news for maybe 1/4 as long.
—————
WE GOT WHAT WE WANTED
President Trump ran on securing the border, fighting terrorism, cutting excessive regulations, downsizing government, eliminating dumb spending programs, strong military, and making our economy strong. In less than 7 months he has made significant progress in those areas. Exactly what he was elected to do.
—————
ATTACK THE PERSON WHEN YOU CAN’T THE POLICIES
Equating our President to Kim Jong Un? Robert Mugabe?
Both those guys are socialists. President Trump is a capitalist.
Mugabe and Jong Un aren’t crafty businessmen, they didn’t create and own multi-billion dollar international conglomerates. They spent almost all their lives in politics.
Both those guys got to power with fraudulent elections. Jong Un and Mugabe got into power because people like Donna Brazile, CNN, Hillary, Podesta, Debbie Wasserman Schultz and the DNC leadership cheated for them. President Trump got into power in spite of those people.
Both Mugabe and Jong Un are big government guys, expanding government’s reach into people’s lives. President Trump is an opposite here too.
————–
DEMEANOR
That’s how we judge a leader? By demeanor?
Andrew Jackson isn’t on the 20 because of his demeanor.
George Washington isn’t on the 1 because of his.
Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson aren’t the greatest heavy weights of all times because of demeanor.
When you can’t knock a fellow’s accomplishments then you go after his demeanor. That’s why Ali was The Louisville Lip and an arrogant n—. That’s why Andrew Jackson and Teddy Roosevelt were labeled unfit for office, because of demeanor.
That’s also why our President, creator, owner and manager of a multi-billion dollar conglomerate, successful in many fields, employer of tens of thousands of men and women of all colors, creating products and services bought by millions, year after year, here and abroad, is labeled…
— bankrupt
— racist
— unable to handle complex tasks
— not trustworthy
— ignorant of social graces
— ignorant of government
— ignorant of foreign affairs
— just plain ignorant
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/political-cartoon-depicts-president-andrew-jackson-sitting-news-photo/517354664?esource=SEO_GIS_CDN_Redirect#political-cartoon-depicts-president-andrew-jackson-sitting-stunned-as-picture-id517354664
Richard Ivans
Trump’s End?
Joe,
President Trump isn’t even 7 months into his presidency and already you’re writing about his end.
Well, that’s not really correct. You and others have been writing about his end for 9 months, since last November.
————–
THE ELECTION IS OVER, THE END ISN’T FOR YEARS
Get over it. President Trump was elected by a significant margin. America wanted him to be our president. He beat out a couple dozen other people to win. It wasn’t a fringe group of crackpots that wanted Trump to be our president. It wasn’t some people who didn’t know what they were voting for. Donald Trump had been in American news for over 30 years. Before being elected, Obama, Clinton, and Carter had been in the news for maybe 1/4 as long.
—————
WE GOT WHAT WE WANTED
President Trump ran on securing the border, fighting terrorism, cutting excessive regulations, downsizing government, eliminating dumb spending programs, strong military, and making our economy strong. In less than 7 months he has made significant progress in those areas. Exactly what he was elected to do.
—————
ATTACK THE PERSON WHEN YOU CAN’T THE POLICIES
Equating our President to Kim Jong Un? Robert Mugabe?
Both those guys are socialists. President Trump is a capitalist.
Mugabe and Jong Un aren’t crafty businessmen, they didn’t create and own multi-billion dollar international conglomerates. They spent almost all their lives in politics.
Both those guys got to power with fraudulent elections. Jong Un and Mugabe got into power because people like Donna Brazile, CNN, Hillary, Podesta, Debbie Wasserman Schultz and the DNC leadership cheated for them. President Trump got into power in spite of those people.
Both Mugabe and Jong Un are big government guys, expanding government’s reach into people’s lives. President Trump is an opposite here too.
————–
DEMEANOR
That’s how we judge a leader? By demeanor?
Andrew Jackson isn’t on the 20 because of his demeanor.
George Washington isn’t on the 1 because of his.
Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson aren’t the greatest heavy weights of all times because of demeanor.
When you can’t knock a fellow’s accomplishments then you go after his demeanor. That’s why Ali was The Louisville Lip and an arrogant n—. That’s why Andrew Jackson and Teddy Roosevelt were labeled unfit for office, because of demeanor.
That’s also why President Trump, creator, owner and manager of a multi-billion dollar conglomerate, successful in many fields, employer of tens of thousands of men and women of all colors, creating products and services bought by millions, year after year, here and abroad, is labeled…
— bankrupt
— racist
— unable to handle complex tasks
— not trustworthy
— ignorant of social graces
— ignorant of government
— ignorant of foreign affairs
— just plain ignorant
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/political-cartoon-depicts-president-andrew-jackson-sitting-news-photo/517354664?esource=SEO_GIS_CDN_Redirect#political-cartoon-depicts-president-andrew-jackson-sitting-stunned-as-picture-id517354664
Anthony Bernardo
Trump was given the business by his father. It was worth 200 mil at the time. Had he put the money in an index fund he would be worth about the same as Forbes estimates his current net worth, not the bs number Trump puts out. He’s a total con man, and a schmuck.
Anthony Bernardo
Trump was given the business by his father. It was worth 200 mil at the time. Had he put the money in an index fund he would be worth about the same as Forbes estimates his current net worth, not the bs number Trump puts out. He’s a total con man, and a schmuck.
Richard Ivans
During the Republican debates Marco Rubio jabbed at Donald Trump saying he inherited $100 million from his father. Turning $100 million into $3.5 billion requires a 21.8% annual increase.
21.8% > 5.4%
Anthony Bernardo
The 100 million was on his death in 1999. That adds to the 200 million business the father gave him, not split, in 1970s. The Dow was 1000 ish in 1980. It was 18000 ish when he won. 18 X 200 equals 3.6 bil. Plus add the 100 mil compounded. The Dow index would have been just as good. I know you love alt. facts.
Anthony Bernardo
The 100 million was on his death in 1999. That adds to the 200 million business the father gave him, not split, in 1970s. The Dow was 1000 ish in 1980. It was 18000 ish when he won. 18 X 200 equals 3.6 bil. Plus add the 100 mil compounded. The Dow index would have been just as good. I know you love alt. facts.
Anthony Bernardo
Actually, I went to a history of DT on Wiki. Who is occupy democrats?
Anthony Bernardo
Actually, I went to a history of DT on Wiki. Who is occupy democrats?